Name Translation

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invisifan

Name Translation

Beitrag: # 11990Beitrag invisifan »

I see that the Dutch publishers have (after 40 years) decided to rename some characters & camps from the originally untranslated French ... rater like what the American albums did, only not so extensive, but in the same market (that worked really well).

I gather that Portuguese also has a similar issue with the original names ?

What do people think?
Sofie

Beitrag: # 12008Beitrag Sofie »

I'm from Belgium myself (the Dutchspeaking part) and I have to say that these changes in the names disturb many readers. Actually what happened is that some original names were maintained in the first translation (like Abraracourcix and Assurancetourix, and the names of the different camps) and now they are changed to the names used in the English translations. It disturbs me, not because I don't like the English names, but because after 40 years you can't just shake the old names of. And I consider it a lack of creativity to just copy names from the English translation (the american to be more precise).

What I would have liked to see is a different translation for Belgium and the Netherlands, because just like American English and British English, there are quite some differences between Dutch from Belgium and Dutch from the Netherlands (which is generally considered as the standard form of Dutch). Not to mention there is a difference in culture. Belgium is part Frenchspeaking, and so the need to change certain names is not as urgent. We start studying French from eleven, which is obligated and necessary if you want to work in any public service in Belgium. In the Netherlands on the other hand, the second language chosen by students will almost always be English or maybe German.
The new translation is made by a translator from the Netherlands. I will not say his translation is not good, because it is. But in Belgium some of the expressions and puns sound unnatural, which could have been prevented with a second translator from Belgium (which, if I'm not mistaken used to be the case in the previous translation). I think the English translation is brilliant, but it is the work of two translators and with books like asterix, that is not an outrageous luxury.

P.S. I'm studying to become a translator myself, which may explain my more than natural interest in these matters :smile:
invisifan

Beitrag: # 12009Beitrag invisifan »

As I understand it Assurancetourix becomes Kakofonix and Abraracourcix is renamed Heroix ... The first is essentially the British name (Cacofonix) as also used in Geek, Polish & Turkish (the American is Malacoustix)... As for the Chief ... afaik "Heroix" is entirely new (American was Macroeconomix), and a lot closer to the Germanic/Scandinavian "Majestix" ... the camp names (which I don't recall) looked Dutch to me ...

As for the American English translations ... :shock: I can't say they ever felt right to me ... maybe simply because they seemed to try to make the characters too common (in the sense of vulgar, or vice versa) ...
Sofie

Beitrag: # 12010Beitrag Sofie »

Yes, Assurancetourix becomes Kakofonix, so a slightly different spelling. But the name has an unpleasant feeling in Dutch, cause 'Kak' in Dutch means the same as 'shit' in English. Please note that I am not swearing :smile: . Though it was probably not intentional, because 'kak' is used in Belgium, but it is far les common in the Netherlands. As for Heroïx, I remembered the American name when I read it. It seems a bit more original than I thought then. You're right, the camp names are derived from Dutch. 'Grootmocum' means something like 'big mouth' and "adfundum" (which I find quite funny) is what you say when you empty a glass of alcohol in one time. I think the expression is familiar in English too, isn't it?

Remains that the changes in names should have happened way before 2000. And that Petitbonum was a name in which most Belgians will recognise "petit bonhomme', though actually I think the new alternative is funnier.

What is interesting too is that some of the jokes are kind of 'updated', replaced with references to things that hadn't happened yet when the original was written. I remember noticing that a few times, but I don't have a clear example at the moment. As I am studying asterix translations for school (I am making a dissertation on the subject) I'll come back to you when I have found one.
walter282

Beitrag: # 12013Beitrag walter282 »

'Grootmocum' means something like 'big mouth'
I thought Grootmocum was from Mokum = Amsterdam in Bargoens.

Walter.
Sofie

Beitrag: # 12017Beitrag Sofie »

I always saw it as derived from the word 'moker' (means something like fist, or hamer) a 'mokerslag' is a powerful slap in the face. But seeing the translator is from the Netherlands, your explanation is more likely. Anyway that is not a reference someone from Belgium will automatically see. We will often see references to the French culture sooner than to that from the Netherlands. That's the reason I would like to see two different translations for dutchspeaking people, but I don't think its very realistic since you would have to make a different translation for +- 6 million people then (the dutchspeaking part of Belgium), which is not a large public. (compared to the 16 million people that the Netherlands count).
invisifan

Beitrag: # 12019Beitrag invisifan »

Sofie hat geschrieben:Assurancetourix becomes Kakofonix, so a slightly different spelling. But the name has an unpleasant feeling in Dutch, cause 'Kak' in Dutch means the same as 'shit' in English
Actually in English "Kaka" is/was kiddie-slang for the same thing though it's hardly used nowadays. :idea: So with the "-fonix" (-phonic) attached that would imply he's ... "****ty sounding"?? ...

"adfundum" would be by way of Latin (to the bottom) ... in English it would be "Bottoms Up" or in American English "down the hatch"... :cervisia:
walter282 hat geschrieben:I thought Grootmocum was from Mokum = Amsterdam in Bargoens.
:-D So in English the camp would be "GreatAmsterdum" :evil:
SingingGandalf

Beitrag: # 12024Beitrag SingingGandalf »

In English I have also heard 'kaka' used if someone is barmy, or mad.
invisifan

Beitrag: # 12028Beitrag invisifan »

SingingGandalf hat geschrieben:In English I have also heard 'kaka' used if someone is barmy, or mad.
Yes, though more often 'gaga' ...
Christine

Beitrag: # 12029Beitrag Christine »

Invisifan hat geschrieben:Actually in English "Kaka" is/was kiddie-slang for the same thing though it's hardly used nowadays.
Well, in French we spell it with 'c's instead of 'k's and it means the same.

During the last football (soccer...) world cup, the Brasilian player Kaka and a few others had rather funny names for French ears.

About French and Dutch (sorry for only-English speakers) : in my hometown, in the North of France (Camaracum and its humbugs...) we use a dialect with sometimes hints of a germanic-like grammar (and a few traces of Spanish too ! History...).
We use some of 'Belgicisms' used in 'Asterix in Belgium' : 'loque' for a mopping cloth, 'diner' for lunch whereas in tne rest of France it means dinner... I wonder if the word 'drache' (for 'rain') is mentionned... We use it too. We have not adopted the numerical system ('septante' for 70, as in the druid name Septantesix), although it is much more logical !

(I can speak a bit of Dutch too : "Hoegaarden", "abdij van Grimbergen", "Abdij van Leffe trippel"...
:cervisia: )
Sofie

Beitrag: # 12032Beitrag Sofie »

Grimbergen and Leffe are without any doubt some of the best products from Belgium :grin:. Westmalle is considered a great beer too, but I don't like it very much myself. I have once spent a few nights in the 'abdij van Westmalle' while we were on a class trip, and of course the only beer available was Westmalle, but after the trip I still didn't like it very much. I don't know why I am suddenly starting to inform you guys about belgian beers, but since I am, you should really try them out when you happen to visit Belgium. Even if you otherwise don't like beer at all, Grimbergen and Leffe are a bit sweeter than most beers, so give them a try.

I realise I may sound rather nationalistic when talking about my country, but that's just what I like about reading different translations, they reflect the culture of the countries for which they are written. Which must make it especially difficult to translate the english albums, since there are so many englishspeaking countries. So they actually have the same problem as the dutch translations. Or the spanish. or...
jaap toorenaar

Beitrag: # 12035Beitrag jaap toorenaar »

Sofie was looking for an example of a new dutch translation with a more actual aspect in it. I could mention a spot in The Gothics, where there is laughter by Asterixy, Obelix and the druid, and two passengers on the street hear this. In the translation from the 1960´s the passenger says something like "seems to be funny down there in jail". In the new translation he says: "That's what you get with two or more persons in one cell" - a hint to an actual political debate in Holland concerning more than one prisoner in each cell in prison!
Jaap
invisifan

Beitrag: # 12041Beitrag invisifan »

Sofie hat geschrieben:Even if you otherwise don't like beer at all, Grimbergen and Leffe are a bit sweeter than most beers, so give them a try.
:-D I'll keep it in mind, but since I don't drink I wouldn't hold my breath ... :roll:
I realise I may sound rather nationalistic when talking about my country, but that's just what I like about reading different translations, they reflect the culture of the countries for which they are written. Which must make it especially difficult to translate the english albums, since there are so many english-speaking countries.
Strangely, that doesn't seem to be the case (although you could say that the translations are just exceptional) -- the same translation works well for Britain, Australia, New Zealand, India, Canada ... the States is another matter, but it's hard to engage the attention of Americans with anything outside their own history & geography.
So they actually have the same problem as the dutch translations. Or the spanish. or...
Well Spanish is a whole different matter :roll: They do have different translations for Castillian, Catalan/Valencian, Basque, Galician ... although the latter has only a limited selection (but could also try the Portuguese or Brazilian translations) ... Personally I'm fascinated by the vast diversity of language & culture over the relatively tiny area of Europe :-D
Sofie

Beitrag: # 12042Beitrag Sofie »

Thanks a million Jaap! I am currently discussing if new translations should be 'updated' to current situations (since the original will rarely be updated) and this is a great example which I probably wouldn't have caught without your remark. That's the nice thing about studying asterixtranslations, you don't have to worry so much about not seeing references and puns that your teachers will see (causing you to have lower marks), because there are few things left that have escaped the eye of the fans who study these puns. I certainly intend to use reviews by the real experts, and I will also certainly refer back to them in bibliography and thanks. Long live the Asterixfans! :cool: :grin:

P.S. I really like new references and puns in Asterix, Frits van der Heide makes some really good ones. Just, being from Belgium I do not always see the references to the Dutch culture. Maybe I have to read some newspapers from the Netherlands to get more familiar with it. After all I have to read French and British ones for my language classes, so its kind of logical to know as much about the Netherlands as I know about these countries. An idea worth introducing when returning to school in two months. After all, a good translator knows his complete audience.
jaap toorenaar

Beitrag: # 12048Beitrag jaap toorenaar »

let me add one more example of an "updated" translation, because you appreciate it, Sofie. Asterix and the britains page 20 panel 8 (the picture just before the famous "drink your beer, otherwise it's getting cold!"). Here the values of british coins are being explained in the old translation (goldbars, cupper coins, their weight etc.) In the new translation it goes like this: "There are two groups in Britain: one of the fans of the continental coinage, led by Euroforix and the group led by Eurofobix, who wants to keep the english coinage. both groups are eternally debating with eachother..."
By the way, Sofie, I am dutch and if you hesitate about some things inthe new translation, don't hesitate to contact me by mail,
Jaap
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